Greetings to all…
This is “new guy” Bill Geary from Clarks Summit, Pa. USA.
I’m quite excited to join this forum. I recently bought a very special car. It’s one of those beautiful cars that have been on my Wish List for more than 50 years!
It’s a 1971 Lotus Elan +2 S. Build date 12/70. Body 00091-N.
Before anyone gets too excited, the seller only had the body shell for sale. It appears to be completely original, down to the early 70s strange Pumpkin Orange paint. It doesn’t even have a Chassis under it!!
No front or rear glass either. Both doors do have glass tho.
No interior, except for a British dash which is very weathered. I hope to save most of the Smiths gauges?
Since I’m basically starting from scratch, I’ve pretty much decided to build my “Dream Car”. This will be powered by either an early 60s BOP all-alum 3.5 V8, or the more modern Rover variant from the 80s-90s?
I hope to use the excellent 5-speed manual trans from the TR7 or TR8?
My first question is, may I use the Spyder chassis for this project? If so, I wonder if they will agree to modifying their current frame for the +2 to accept the V8??
I realize I will be de-valuing this little beauty but I have no intention of ever selling it! It’s something I’ve wanted to do ever since I owned a 1970 Opel GT back in '72-'74!!
So there you have it. This is my first foray into the world of Lotus ownership. I look forward to hearing from anyone who’s had experience doing such a big project?
Find a Lotus engine Bill and buy a proper Lotus chassis (no offence to Spyder and it’s quality products btw, this would be purely my preference)…fitting a big heavy lump up front is a serious mistake, you will ruin the car and lose any investment you have in it. Don’t imagine that a 1600 cc engine in this car is a major manufacturers base model…this is a sweet, sweet car, you will not improve it by shoehorning a heavier,albeit more powerful engine into it, … Chapman and his team knew what they were doing, had it required a large engine to get the best all round performance they would have done it…Lotus are all about balance and handling, weight distribution is critical, if you lose that they would be no better than an MG C or a Sunbeam Tiger…OK in a straight line, can’t go round a corner…like any front heavy car. Watch Jay Leno’s video on his Elan…handling is the key…just follow Chapman’s Lotus ( World Champion Car Constructor’s) ethos. My worry is that you will accidentally turn an extremely good car into a dog.
A good modern 4 or even 3 cylinder engine should slot in without a lot of hacking around of the chassis. Will make mince meat of an old 3.5L Rover V8. Key is not do do anything that isn’t easily reversible should you wish to use a proper Lotus engine. I’m currently driving around in a modern car with a 3 cylinder 200HP engine - boy things have come a long way. Cubic inches are only for dinosaurs !!
To install even a ‘lightweight’ v-8 in that car would require a very custom and much more substantial chassis, beefier suspension, etc, all massively increasing weight and absolutely destroying the beautifully balanced dynamics of the car. You’d end up with a pretty but otherwise highly compromised ‘kit car’. So much for 'simplify and add lightness’.
If you want something modern that will just run and be fun, then the Zetec 2.0 is the way to go. The issue with the V8 engines is that they will probably be too physically big. Quite apart from heavy as has been pointed out above.
If you have time on your hand and money is not an issue then anything is possible, but with the Zetec’s at least the hard work had been done by others. Plus the engines themselves are in the spirit of the originals.
Agree with Berni, zetec route tried and tested, Spyder chassis better bet,
If you want originality that’s great but I think a lot of people who drove a zetec Vs twin cam would choose the zetec, I think the plus2 should have gotten the BDA/BDG engines,
This could be a real problem. Bill, have you had a chance to looks at a complete Plus 2 in the flesh? The chassis doesn’t have much room for more than an inline 4:
Which is not to say that a small V can’t fit, but the amount of modification of both the chassis and the body that would be required to make it work might be more than you really want to take on. I’m not saying don’t do it, just be aware of what you’re up against here.
The weight arguments are pretty valid too. The Buick/Rover V8 out-weighs the Lotus Twin Cam by more than 100 lbs. so in addition to all the chassis/body modifications, you’ll need to make some changes to the suspension too.
All this is not impossible but whether or not its worth the effort is the question you’ll need to put a lot of thought into.
I searched this site to inform my reply and around 230 lbs for the engine was the best figure I saw, based on one chap actually weighing his. No idea about the transmission but it’s north of 100 lbs and I can grunt it off the ground and carry it SHORT distances. The search function seems to be malfunctioning at the moment so I can’t find any threads addressing this.
If the v8 is 315 lb then that’s another 50 lb up front? Could work. I’d be much more concerned that it may have to shift forward to fit a wider part of the forked frame. An alternative project would be to put the v8 in a Europa, where there is plenty of room, and precedence. I have a v8 that I’ll cast an eye on for fit. Never thought about that before. John
Thanks very much John!
Over the years I’ve dreamed of putting the 3.5 V8 into a Europa, but I’ve never found the right candidate…
In the meantime, I found this beautiful all original +2 body. Unfortunately it’s nothing but the bare body shell!
I’ve already heard back from Spyder in England. They will NOT modify their chassis in order for me to fit the 3.5 V8. So I’m on my own if I want to attempt to notch the frame rails!
At this point, I’m still just doing the research to determine if this is a viable project?
Best regards,
Bill Geary
There is a company in England that puts Jaguar V6s into MX-5/Miatas. It’s said to not spoil the handling. Given that the Mazda’s heritage is the Elan this may be the way to go. Apparently the engine weighs about 230 lbs.
I’m all for building your dream/ forever car and you started similarly, but different from me. I picked up a frame first and plan to ‘drape it’ later once the frame is a roller with a drivetrain installed…
That said, I also want to discourage you from the V8 path, or any V-motor due to simply not having the space. The pic of the motor with no body should give you an idea as to how tight the space is.
Whatever path you choose, I will be here watching. I am also a fan of the Aluminum V8, but dont think the Elan (+2 or otherwise) is the right destination for it.
Thanks for your reply…
I’m still awaiting delivery of my complete rolling +2 chassis. It’s looking less and less likely that the 3.5 V8 will fit, though.
What are your thoughts on using the 2 liter inline 6 from a Triumph GT6?..
Cheers,
Bill
