Plus 2 values (or asking prices) still seem to be on the up.
This one is ?18,995 for a restored but not spydered (if that’s a word) 130/5
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/971243.htm
Worth it or not?
Plus 2 values (or asking prices) still seem to be on the up.
This one is ?18,995 for a restored but not spydered (if that’s a word) 130/5
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/971243.htm
Worth it or not?
While the asking price may reflect the restoration cost its hard to see it getting that in the market.
cheers
Rohan
Hmm, looks familiar. Peers into database…
This was being advertised on carandclassic in mid February not by UK Sports Cars for ?13,995. Either they’ve scooped it up and are selling it on themselves, or they’re commission selling with a large commission. That’s a healthy 35% mark-up.
UK Sports Cars (of whom no good words seem to appear around this forum) have also done similar traceable stunts in the past with around 20% mark-ups overnight.
Good on’ em, I say, if they can drive values up, but of course it doesn’t necessarily work like that.
Meanwhile, as I know you’re all dying for an update:
In exactly a year, a sample size of 83 identifiable cars with quoted asking prices, puts the average at ?8,565, with the largest group of these in the 7 - 8K bracket.
I’ve made two deals with UK Sport Cars.
First, I bought a Caterham, which really was in the perfect condition said in the ad.
Then, a couple of years later - due to my positive experience with the company, I visited them again to look at a +2s/130. At ?9.995 it was overprices, but I managed to nearly half the price - and bought it.
It was already fitted with a galvanized chassis, and both body & interior was very good.
Had to fit new sills, seatbelts and -fasteners, as well as brake hoses - and then used the car for a good two years.
Then engine begun to smoke - terrible.
Head was overhauled last year - still smoking.
Engine block is undergoing surgery as I write. Got a phone from the garage a few days ago, telling me that one of the cylinders had an overbore - the rest was original sized - but oval…
So, a big and expensive job ahead, and the total cost of my car is now up to ?15.000. Can never sell that car. At least not until prices rise a lot - which will not happend during the financial crises we are in the middle of…
But at least I recon I will have a fun and reliable +2s Elan for the coming summers
And regarding UK Sports Cars; I am still 60% satisfied - though they are rather expensive…
I’m not satisfied at all with Phil Newey Sportscar of California, USA, who sold me a wreck of an Europa, stating it was ‘daily driven’ and in ‘near mint condition’. After 10 years of renovation, I hope to get the car licenced this summer…
Hi everyone
It seems to me that there’s often a significant difference between what is meant by “value” and what is meant by “price”
When considerend as an historic/classic vehicle, a car by arguably one of Britains greatest designers, and produced by a company which re-wote the rule book in '60s GP racing, should easily command a value of ?18 to ?20K. Wheather one would actually sell at this price, however, is altogether a different matter. Now, if Lotus were Italian !!!
Andy
And he has had VOW193J, which he lists as a Sprint (though it has a S4 VIN) for sale at the same price for two years. Well, I would’nt buy it!
Tim
What do you mean “arguably”? Ron Hickman is certainly one of Britain’s best designers; even if he is South African.
That restored LOTUS ELAN PLUS TWO will be worth that money (about US $28K dollars) in the moment somebody buys it for that price. Not before. On the other hand, if you restore a a plus 2 you will spend twice that money.
Asking prices only reflect seller?s expectations. Elan plus 2 prices have been more o less the same for years. Small changes (2% to 4 % increase per year) merely keep up with inflation. Sport Car Market classifies the Elan plus 2 as a C investment, meaning they are NOT an investment at all. What is interesting is that a properly restored Elans +2s continue to be the best deal for the money for a Lotus since you can get a great car for less than half of the restoration costs. . . and frankly, the Plus 2 looks better than the baby Elan .
Again, these cars are great hobbies and poor investments. Eventually they will get more expensive, specially since Lotus is becoming such a recognized mark in the US (thanks to current modern production cars). Contemporary Lotus cars are attracting a lot of interest; so know many are curious about these old odd cars from the 60s and 70s and more willing to stomach mechanical peculiarities and psychedelic colors. Europas, for example, are being sold well (restored for around US $14K-16K) and the prices on top restored Elans (not plus 2) are getting into the 30Ks. Plus 2s in top condition still gravitate around $15-19K… in the US. I like my +2 a lot but I do not expect or desire its value to increase. I am glad and hope Plus 2s do not get so expensive that we can not afford them anymore.
On the other hand, you will do better with a good Elan + 2 than with a new Miata
[b]COMPARISON:
DISCLAIMER: if you restore the car we are talking about $450 to $650 dollars a month for the same eight years and one or two of actually driving the car! Not that there is anything wrong with it!
2. YOU BUY A NEW MIATA. Suposse you get a new Miata. You will pay about $24K, spend much less, and have half the fun, but in 8 years you will sell it for US $3K
-24K (New)
-28K (8 year cost approx)
With the Elan you would save $3000 more in insurance and taxes for the same 8 years so there is a small cushion to re-chrome the bumpers and buy a solid CV conversion or something else
In sum, I figured that even if the plus 2 cost me the same as the Miata (I hope not), it would be worth!
Best
Carlos
Hi Everyone
This talk of restoring a classic car and expecting to make a profit seems to be a relativly new thing to me (last 10 years).
Years ago it was always accecpted that it would cost money to restore a car, whatever it was. Messing with old cars was a hobby which you did becaues you enjoyed and had to pay for like any other (who would expect to make profit bird watching or fishing). I did always think, however, that Elans and Europa Twin Cams were a little better than most as, being relativly simple, you could just about break even on cost of car and parts provided you did all the build yourself and did’n’t charge anything for your own labour. There would, however, never be any way to recoup cost if you had the car professionally restored. Since then I dont really think anything much has changed, only peoples expectations perhaps.
Finally, how about this as an “Easy Guide to Classic Car Values”
1st Any 2 seater with no roof
2nd 2 seater with roof (unless engine in back then =1st
3rd Cars with +2 rear seats (unless Aston Martin DB label)
4th Full 4 seaters
Notes
Anything with “Ferrari” Label - goes to top of list
Anything to do with racing - Add “0” to end of price
Regards
Andy
HI Andy
Your easy guide to classic cars values is spot on. you could add to it - anything to do with racing add zero to sale price but add two zeros to build cost.
cheers
Rohan
Ah, but consider the Lotus Cortina, Twincam Escort, RS 1600 Escort, Mini Cooper ‘S’. All full 4 seaters, starting price ?25k, and if it has race or rally provenance, heading up towards ?100k. Ex Jim Clark (Cortina)…name your price.
GTHOs and Toranas in Australia, early Mustangs, Hemis and Corvettes in America…same story, even crazier prices.
Properly restored Mk II Jags are heading towards E Type money, and the S1 E Type Coupe has now caught up with the rag top equivalent in price.
Top money goes to top Coupes not rag tops…especially the 60s Ferrari, Aston DB4 GT Zagato (swoon), Maserati, Corvettes and again, the better the race provenance, the higher the price. Go back to pre-war and look at the Coupe Bugattis, Bentleys, Jaguars, Lancias and the sort of dosh they command. Just look at the shape of a well designed Coupe from any angle, then compare to a convertible…it’s easy to see why the ragtop doesn’t cut it…they all look the same!!
Back to the Lotus world, compare the Elite (14) price to the Elan, and more recently, the Coupe Elan price had considerably closed the gap on the drophead.
As for the decending list of deirability Andy…I don’t think so.
So there we are…nothing controversial in that lot I think
Mark
Here’s my car investment guide that I hope will bear out my Elan’s value one of these days if I ever have to sell it (tho I hope never). What do you all think of this criteria? I have tried to distill it to three elements:
Rarity is easy to understand why it matters. By contrast, it also suggests that the muscle car market doesn’t have legs. Most aren’t rare by production at all, they are just being bid up by nostalgic owners of the right age now. It will be interesting to see how much longer muscle will hold out as the baby boomers get too old. (I am one of them).
Driveability is both how much fun a car is to drive, as well as how reliable. So, the Lotus is huge on the first element. Also explains why an early 911 is so valuable. Fun to drive and more reliable. Also, think of a 2002…really really reliable, but not nearly as much of a sports car.
Lotuses in general have massive race provenance, and the X-beam chassis was a very important design. The same cannot be said for most other LBCs of the 60’s.
Anyway, just curious what others think. It Snowed Over Spring Break Jeff in Chicago