Hi there. As part of my rebuild I am fitting 2 new sill members. Can anyone tell me if I can do this job while the body is 1 metre off the ground on bricks and wooden supports. It will be much easier this way but I am not sure if the bolts at the bottom of the sill have any structural support, i.e when i grind them out will the tub distort? I would have no hesitation doing the job with the tub on the chassis but need advice before trying it this way.
Thanks again.
Hi John
Don’t use brick or concrete blocks, the can brake under the weight of a car and KILL you. Please find another way. A pair of heavy duty saw horses would be safer in my opinion, besides we would miss you.
Gary
Thanks Gary.It needed someone to mention the safety aspect. on a couple of occasions it has moved .I will make sure it is safer.I would miss myself too.
John - To answer your question,
Yes, replace them whilst the body is off the car then you will have no issues with pulling out the old or installing the new, with the wheel hubs in the way.
If you are concerned about the body sagging then support the length of the sill with timber with a couple of jacks either end.
You may need to do some repairs to the fibre glass along the sill as it is difficult to get to the heads with a grinder - Unless you are very lucky and you can undo them!
Its not a difficult job - Its just takes time and patience
Good luck - Dave
Thanks Dave. I dont think luck and Lotus go together,every nut needs grinding out.The whole length is on two scaffolding planks so I will give it a go. Thanks again.
Hi.
If the original sills are really badly corroded is it possible that the body has already sagged?
With the sills removed the outer skin will flap around in the wind, while the inner skin is still relatively firm. As I’m sure you appreciate, you can’t jack on the outer skin once the sill is removed. Once the new sills are in, the inner and outer skins become a very strong assembly together, but separated, with the sill removed, the inner skin on my car was not as stiff as once the new sills were in - hope this makes sense.
When I fitted my new sills the originals had been out for some time, and I found that I needed to jack up the outer skin to align the bolt holes in the fibreglass with the flat on the new sills (prior to drilling them), and with the bolt holes on the inner skin. That was pre-restoration of the body, but nothing cracked etc. I managed to get it pretty much straight. So, if you have nice bodywork, it may be the alignment when you come to drill the new sills that you find a tad stressful - there have been posts on this before though - I think people have different views on the alignment of the skins.
My bodywork has now been restored. On return to home I was concerned to find that the bolts had been left out of the sills, so that was the first job for me - I didn’t want it to sag again - I didn’t have to do any jacking that time.
If you have the body off the chassis it’s relatively light, so shouldn’t you be ok with blocks under the floorpans? Bear in mind that the boot section can flex, so I’d use blocks just inside of the original 4 jacking points, a few inches in from the inner skin. The body’ll slide around on the blocks, so you’ll need to be carefull, or maybe you can bolt down through the body. Just a thought. You can’t support the body on the edges of the skins once the sills are out though. Hope that’s helpful.
Sean.
John…removing the sill members whilst the body is off the chassis has got to reduce the torsional ridgidity of the shell, which must increase the risk of putting a twist in the shell when putting the new ones in. I would only put side members in with the body firmly bolted to the chassis AND the doors in situ…that way you can tell very quickly if anything has changed by making sure that the doors fit exactly as they did. Both the shell and the chassis are pretty weak on their own, and whilst the sill members contribute to the rigidity of the shell, it’s only when all three things are put together that it works.
The 2 seat Elan has an insignificant looking wire frame in its sill cavity. Brian Buckland suggests that the body MUST be bolted to the chassis before this item is changed, for the same reason.
If you have the original style sill members, it’s probably worth while getting them out whilst the body is up in the air, as with the body bolted down, they require the rear suspension to be removed to get out. But the Spyder sill members can be fitted with the rear suspension in situ, and the body bolted back onto the chassis. Do it this way and there’s no risk of those beautifully restored doors not fitting
Mark
John,
I agree with Mark, tightening up the sills with the body off may induce some distortion in the body. However, as Sean pointed out, with corroded sills, you haven’t got much to lose by taking them out.
Why not replace the sills while the body is conveniently jacked up but tighten up the fastenings when you have it back on the Chassis?
regards
Mike
Mike I think thats the way to go.As Sean says they are rotted and of no real use and Mark they are the Lotus ones so best get them in at leat.
Question- I think I could tighten the 3 inner plates if they line up i cant see a problem doing this?
I will take the advice and do the bottom bolts as a later job when the chassis is back on. I intend it to be a full rolling chassis with the body lowered onto it so I dont want to do a double job.
Thanks again for your advice.
That all sounds like good advice to me - my bodyshell was sat on the chassis and the doors were fitted, so as you all have pointed out I could check that everything was lined up properly. Putting the little screws in last, with the shell doors etc fitted, sounds like a good idea. If you’re fitting replacement sills and re-hanging the doors, which comes first? I’ve no idea myself. I fitted the replacement sills before the restoration because the body had obviously sagged.
Sean.
Sounds fine to me.
It makes me wonder how Lotus built them, I suspect that they built the bodies, fitted the sill stiffeners (perhaps with a body carrier that provided some support) then fitted the chassis and then the doors.
Mike
Have a look in my book lotus Elan a Restoration Guide. I have dedicated a whole chapter to +2 sill replacement. Not an easy job by any means but better with the body off the chassis. I always support my body on 4 sections of railway sleepers (wooden ones) one at each corner. The bottom sill fixing screws will be that rusty that the ones that don’t break will have to be drilled out. Always replace with stainless just in case you have to do it again. The fixing plates inside the body need HTS bolts as they are structural and the middle ones holds the seat belt anchors!
Have fun
Gordon
Rhubarb & Custard
In the hope that it may save a few people a lot of wasted effort, there is a simple and very effective way of removing rusted up +2 steel cill strengtheners.
Take a good sized, half inch or more, socket drive and a clean undamaged socket for the quarter inch unified bolts. Fit the socket over the head of the bolt making sure to get full engagement and then tighten it up. Nine times out of ten the head simply shears off. If you try to unscrew them nine times out of ten it’ll fail.
Tawny