I’ve been unsuccessfully trying to find out how Series 2 26R Elan’s were originally upholstered with regard to the floors, rear bulkhead and transmission tunnel sides etc. (the areas normally trimmed in ‘aligator hide’-style rubber matting).
Does anyone know the answer or maybe even have any photos of original spec cars?
I have a set of repro mats for my S2 racer but it would obviously save time, money and most importantly weight if I could get away with leaving the interior ‘bare’ so to speak.
I don’t want to deviate massively from the original configuration of the car but believe for a racer this would be an acceptable modification.
my 26r had rhino hide in the floor -tunnel and rear fire wall —the rest was cheap plastic vinyl like material glued to the door panels and door surfaces ------just to meet the letter of the rules —ed
For pictures i would point you to the March 1965 issue of CAR. it details the the SMART ( Stirling Moss) racing elan’s gutted intrior complete with photo if you are angleing for the gutted look - Or, the Chris Harvey book which shows pictures of the the Miles S2 racer with “near standard interior” by the looks of it he was running with standard door trim, head liner , dash cap, center console and partial rhino-hide - I can’t tell if he has the floor done but definatly the center/spine
I would go to a lot of troubel to escape the rhino hide if you can, it would net sum zero a lot of magnesium weight savings as the set weights well over over 12 kilos - you want to be under 637kg(1400lbs) and this is hard to do with full interior plus the safety equipment
Thanks guys, some really useful information as always.
I have a repro set of the ‘rhino hide’ sourced from JAE in Cali and it is heavy - 12kg sounds about right. However, I’m not anticipating racing the car (it’s actually a '65 S2 with period race history not a 26R unfortunately) so a few extra kgs doesn’t worry me too much.
26r s2 33 was around 1540 pounds with the iron bell housing and a full 50 pound battery and full tank of fuel so having saved about 12 pounds with the mag piece and going to a gel cell battery I have lost about 52 pounds --the spare tire -fire bottle -are staying so its around 1488 pounds for the street --ed
OK, that’s pretty heavy ! I had racing in mind. On the other hand, I guess an original 26R body is a whole lot heavier than a “modern” GTS replika body… (?)
My S2 Elan when it was first finished in 1997 as a street car without gator hides or pading, heater, boot floor, or anything else not required by the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, was 1260 lbs or 572kgs. This was with a stock body shell and a full compliment of alloy for the bell gearcase, tailshaft, diff nose. it also had had a dave bean CV joint kit and a pair of stock seats but as I said before the bionnet was at home (close to 20 pounds or 9 kg) but the hard top was bolted down on thhe body. With an electric fuel pump there is no reason for a large battery, I thought I was being overly cautious with a garden tractor battery at nearly 20 lbs.
Today I would guess its still under 1300 lbs as the iron gearcase and tailshaft and diff nose are back in but its missing one seat and the hardtop. If I ever get the new 2 liter alloy engine done and installed and some of the other mods I have planed it will be in the 500 to 550 kg rainge
no the body is single weight and lighter than a normal elan ----I weighed my car with a set of race scales for formula cars----the weights I see here—seem optimistic —a stock elan was over 1500 [1580 I think ]-the 26 r was 1450 lbs I understand — you can get the car weighed at a highway DOT truck stop if the guys have a sense-of-humour and are bored — -ed
My S2 has the mag bell, alloy tail shaft, lexan windscreens, light weight bonnet, boot, bumpers super-thin s2 26R fenders , 26r lights, and 6" magnesium wheels, aluminum gas tank with bladder and steel platform on a flat floor boot ( more thin fiberglass) , gutted interior, no charging system and I am no where near the minimum weight- I figure I add weight with the full rollcage, hardtop, and firesystem and dry sump plumbing, maybe steel arounfd the gas tank and rear hubs for the 26R wheels and an unknown amount of water absorbed by the original fibergalss body…
I always figured that I could do with out the wheels/hubs if needed a reduction, but loosing the safty improvements and dry sump system is not an option, might be some gains by switching to the AR calipers, but an oddsey batery gets me that weight for a 1/10 of the cost.
I know FIA does not allow dry sump which I think is foolish because the life of the motor is cut in half ( why allow super light bodies and not drysump ??).
My thought on the minimum weight cars is how you get there keeping to the spirti of vintage racing ?
“Spirit of vintage racing”…- difficult bit to agree abt. … However, the regulations are there, and shall be followed. They tried to be fast then, and we try to be fast under the present regulations. Nothing wrong with that, as far as I feel. Having said that, my car is 585 kgs. with cage and fire-ex.system, so the weight of “something” must have gone down over the years…Fuel tank, bodypanels, radiator… ??
When the S2 Elan was weighed, it was at the Cohasset Heights landfill. These scales are cerified by law every 6 months by the Commonwelth. I asked the operator how accurate it the scale was and he said within 10 lbs. The DOT scales would be probably be the same. The weigh stub is posted and dated as seen in the photo. I had a bag of tools with me and as I got out I pulled the bag with the tools. Ed, You can believe what ever you want.
Gary no offense meant here --Im 220 pounds helmet etc all ads up --but my sources at Dave bean say —stock elan about 1520 pounds —26R about 1340 pounds —so im over and your under --but the sun still comes up tomorrow --and whats a hunderd pounds among friends -----not much unless your Engilsh - -ed
Ed
1260 lbs was empty, I guess that may be reguarded as “curb weight”, no driver or passenger and minimal fuel, maybe 2 or 3 galllons.
Gary
Tuesday 7-22-08
I forgot to ad that the bonnet was left at home for the ride to the weigh station so you need to add an additional 20 lbs to get the “curb weight”. So for the sake of discussion call it 1280 lbs.
Dag, Gary and Ed - we have 4 cars here - 3 with similar configurations
GA = 1260/572
DH = 1287/585
GS = 1380/627
Ed = 1488/676
I get Gary being the lowest because he is not carring the safty gear -
I have weights on my car from a number of track scales and a couple of corner scales used in set up ( will have fresh data this fall if the car goes back on track) so feel somewhat confident in what I am reporting.
The delta between dag and gary , seems small given the weight of a cage and fire extinguisher but I could see it with the new light weight bodies and the pannels available, maybe a new frame helps to -
Dag are you running the new “GTS” bodywork ?
In my case, for me to get where Dag and Gary are I would have to walk away from my vintage race car with history and the orignal frame and body it ran in period and build a continuation car with the new body and frame and use alloy in places not used in period - skip the knock-ons and used alloy bolt on hubs and magnesium minilite wheels alloy calipers and brackets, maybe hollow sway bar, use carbon kevlar hoses instead of rubber/metal braded - you have to get tricky to net sum out the safty gear, plus any other mandatories the regulators throw your way - this is something I am not willing to dor, in fact I think it would wrong to do so.
Ed’s car’s weight may a function of not taking any of the reduction measures that the rest of us performed plus some extra’s ??? maybe the closest to period configuration ?
I recall reading a quote from Dave Bean saying that it was difficult to get an 26R much under 1400 lbs -
Dag, This is what I am refering to when I say spirit of vintage - which over here use to be non-profit clubs focused on period correct cars and safe on track behavior - relying on cubic euros/BPS/$ seems foolish in light of the fact that it takes you away from originality and pushs you over the line on diminishing returns -
I can probably over come any weight deficiency with my superior driving skills and cougar like reflexes - - --ed well CabC I tend to agree strongly ----but the amount of money people spend to win a $10.00 trophy always amazed me ----its all about just being there at the vintage level and having fun ---------ed
I tell you, if I had a car with racing history from “the old days” , I would keep it as it was , as “correct” as ever possible. Definately !! However, it seems we discuss two different things… If you race, - with a desire to win-, you will do what it takes to be competitive under the regulations ! There is no other way, and you don’t do it for ugly crome plastic-cups…
Keeping “old history” alive is definatly equally interesting, but a different story. I have an old works rally Escort TC , ex. Ford Norway, that I try to keep “as was” . I do not want to modify it to be more competitive, - there are a lot of temptations -, because it is a “history item”. I have no problems with understanding that way of thinking .
The body of my Elan is a GTS body from early -90, I believe, with a mix of this and that. According to what I know, it was made in UK. ( Hadfield ?? ) Race incidents made it nescessary to replace various parts, and I have noticed that some are very thin (!).
A Swede once said ; There are three grades of thin : “Thin” , " Ultra Thin", and “Lotus-Elan-thin” …
well Dag you don’t have to tell me about the need to win – --40 years of ACTIVE racing has shown me the competitive nature of racers – --But Vintage racing isn’t real racing !!! The rules are too loose to control the fact that people will go to very expensive means to get an edge --to the point of presenting a car that mechanically has very little resemblance to the car as it was raced in its period for a tin cup —the shame of it is the governing bodies for Vintage don’t seeem to care ----a fellow can trade his H prod sprite for a Brabham F1 and the next year and go on the track with no more up grades on his licence — in a car that was driven by some one who had the talent to come up through the lower formulas to drive it —that was campaigned with a full time mechanic and engineer -----and run it out of his garage at home ----that’s highly dangerous —as is some times brought to our attention with a fatality ------ed–
I see your point, but I believe things are a bit different “over here” . Guess you refer to the Goodwood or Silverstone Classic type of racing…(?) We don’t operate with those sort of budgets, and I assure you, for me “Vintage” ( - we like to call it “Historic” ) racing is “real racing” ! But, I believe you have to make room for people to have different levels of ambition. Some do it for the social part, some for the car’s looks, some for “originality”, others for “racing”…- and we all do it for fun !
helmet etc all ads up --but my sources at Dave bean say —stock elan about 1520 pounds —26R about 1340 pounds —so im over and your under --but the sun still comes up tomorrow --and whats a hunderd pounds among friends -----not much unless your Engilsh - 
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--But Vintage racing isn’t real racing !!! The rules are too loose to control the fact that people will go to very expensive means to get an edge --to the point of presenting a car that mechanically has very little resemblance to the car as it was raced in its period for a tin cup —the shame of it is the governing bodies for Vintage don’t seeem to care ----a fellow can trade his H prod sprite for a Brabham F1 and the next year and go on the track with no more up grades on his licence — in a car that was driven by some one who had the talent to come up through the lower formulas to drive it —that was campaigned with a full time mechanic and engineer -----and run it out of his garage at home ----that’s highly dangerous —as is some times brought to our attention with a fatality ------ed–
