Webasto roof

Hi

I am thinking of fitting a Webasto roof some time in the future, what size is the hole in the +2 fitted ones out there?

The MGB Webasto roofs on Ebay seem to be 33inches by 31inches, are the +2 roofs the same size? If they are the same I could get a MGB roof pretty cheap and put it away for the future. :smiley:

Cheers

Jason

Hello
I looked into getting one a little while ago (but was talked out of it)
This is an email from R & S Coachbuilts (They still supply but a bit pricey)
[email protected]

[i]Dear Sir

According to our pattern books we have two roofs one is for the 2 + 2 the other is for the Elan.

Elan size is 17.25inches long and 30.5 inches wide.

2 + 2 is 28.5 inches wide and 26inches long.

This is the actual cut size.

Regards

S W Ford
R & S Coachbuilts[/i]

All the best

Terry

Thanks Terry

RS Current supply prices are:

Sunroof Kits for:-
Standard Saloon & Estate Cars ?650.00
Range Rover’s 4x4 on Application

Standard Top Cover (?250 supply & fit)

Standard Top Cover & Lining (?350 supply & fit)

Vinyl roof’s and retrim’s prices on application.

Full price and parts list available

All prices are subject to VAT

Specialist vehicles, prices on application

These guys are not cheap, I am looking for a secondhand one I will fit myself.

What put you off?

Some people say they leak; but who drives a Lotus in the rain? My wipers are less effective than the ones on my old Mini. When I drove the car I only drove it on sunny days and the petrol vapour was very strong. A opening in the roof sounds just the job. :slight_smile:

Jason

Jason
Well I had one in my old +2 and it was great really good, no problems at all and my wife loved it. (she does not like the new plus 2, but I do!)
I had a member from the forum stay in one of our gites who also had a sunroof in his +2. My car had a number of stress cracks , and his car before the very expensive respray had more than its fair share of stress cracks. We surmised rightly or wrongly that this may have something to do with the sunroof ???
Terry

Hi Terry

Very interesting, where were the cracks?
The sunroof has a frame which should support itself, the sunroof would be a little heavier than the original roof section?

I would be interested if you had photos of the cracks?

I have the usual stress cracks around door handles, boot hinges and rear quarter (in boot), I would not want to add to them.

Jason

Jason
Sorry no photos, but my cracks were at the base of the windscreen , side of the roof , rear quarters , rear of the doors,
Mine didn’t leak and it did remove alot of the petrol vapours
To be honest it may be a red herring as you read a lot of posts on here regarding drop head conversions and the conclusion that little or no strength is in the roof?
I didn’t go for it as well as here in France it would be very difficult to find a person to fit it or trim it. Whist I would have been be prepared to cut the hole , the trimming of the headlining looked complicated.

You could send a PM to Roy Gillett who had the chat with me for another opinion?

All the best

Terry

I recently purchased a NOS Weathershield brand of the soft top sunroof correctly sized for the Plus 2. They also supplied for the Elan Coupe in a smaller size. The Weathershield was the Lotus Canada available product when the cars were new; understand was a different supplier in other markets. From looking around the 'net, apparently the Weathershield was also known as variously the Britax, Sunway and Sunway II.

Don’t have the Weathershield Elan and Plus 2 call-up sizes handy right now, but from my notes the Plus 2 uses 22" X 30" in Weathershield brand; sorry can’t remember if this is the roof size or the hole size. The soft cover lips over the roof by about 1" to 2" each side/end I think to prevent any rain water getting into the rail area.

Looking above at the posted Webasto dimensions for Elan FHC and Plus 2, bit curious Plus 2 appears narrower than FHC, so a bit of checking seems in order? I remember when I was reviewing available products that the Weathershield seemed smaller that the Webasto’s I saw on 'net photo’s, but looks like it will be OK for me (won’t be using the back seats anyway). I suspect you can use a variety of sizes (within reason) if you are getting from a donor car. Thinking critical issue is to make sure the sides of the roof panel do not extend to the curved portion on the roof sides, or I expect it would leak. From memory, the instructions call up setting the front edge of the cutout ~9 1/2" back from the leading edge of the roof; might help selecting in length of donor car roof.

Weathershield appears to be very similar to the Webasto, but I have not compared them side by side. The seller included the installation manual, maintenance manual, some vintage sales material, and a magazine article detailing installation in a 60’s style “Boogie Van”, which is kinda funny.

I have not installed it yet. The kit and literature is with the body tech now. If this material would be of help, perhaps I could retrieve it from the body shop and scan it. PM if this is wanted, but would take me a few weeks to get done. Maybe some of the install recommendations will help you scope the job out a bit.

Edited post to add this link, which has some install manuals on it:

slidingragtops.com/1.html?sm=70991

The Weathershield kit includes two steel flat stiffeners that are to be installed at the front and rear frames. The front one is pre-notched to line up correctly with the front latch mechanism; the notch is actually placed slightly off centre, and appears to be a pretty critical dimension. The stiffeners are to be attached to the sides of the roof structure at the door opening area, running side to side and attached to the front and rear of the sunroof frame using supplied fasteners. The stiffeners are flat band steel, and are thin enough to easily form to the side to side roof curvature and rest on the door frame.

The examples in the instruction package assume a steel door frame, which makes attachment of the lateral stiffeners pretty straight forward with screws. For the Plus 2, we figure the stiffeners can be glassed in place to the Plus 2 roof structure and door frame.

Figure it will all be stiffer than stock when buttoned up, as the assembled sunroof frame is made up from a set of four very robust extrusions, with the front and back attached to the lateral stiffeners. Without the lateral stiffeners installed and attached to the door frame I could easily see cracking issues because of the added weight of the sunroof assembly (15 lb at a guess?). Curious if folks have similar stiffeners in their Webasto installs; might be good to add if not included in the kit or donor car.

My roof (without the sunroof) presently has extensive cracking across the entire roof panel, so I am kinda winning a bit by cutting out the roof. They were going to be a lot of work to repair correctly.

Anyway, if you notice this type of lateral stiffener in the donor car, suggest taking measurements to note offset from centre line of the front rail notch, and consider removing them for sizing or re-use on your install.

If your donor car has a relatively flat roof think it best. Appears the side rails have to be formed by the installer to the slight front to back roof curvature on the Plus 2; they are straight as supplied new. Figure best if used ones have had very little or no manipulation for installation in the donor car. MGB-GT strikes me as a great donor candidate. Unfortunately I don’t have the Weathershield sizing call-up handy, which is by brand/model of car, and might provide some donor car suggestions. Forming of the side rails appears to be critical to prevent leaks. The rails are quite stiff as they act as the slide track for the roof panel.

When you remove the roof assembly from the donor car, recommend taking very exact measurements of the existing cutout. My supplier was able to provide me with a paper tracing of his metal cutting template, so we expect to not have a big issue getting the correct hole size. I believe this is a very critical measurement to the overall strength of the roof, leaking, etc. Our plan is to cut and gradually grind to fit to get it right. Issue is if hole is too small the roof will bind, to big and the roof will cock sideways in the slides and bind. Front to back dimension obviously important for latch to work correctly. They really stress these points in the instructions, and include adjustment instructions in maintenance manual, so expect this is a common problem.

Seal material for the sunroof frame appears to be self adhesive rubber. Should be easy to find a substitute and trim to fit. Don’t have instructions in front of me, but mentioned using “dumdum” as a sealing product at rails as well. Assume this is some sort of elastomer filler/sealer?

I purchased new pre-sewn headliner material from Susan Miller. You need to specify the number of rods in your headliner to order. Took a while to supply as she probably sends out for sewing. She also has the material by the yard. One needs to specify Lodestar or the perforated material. Note that if your liner is in OK shape you are probably way ahead of the game, and might be able to trim to fit the sunroof opening without removing it. This is an important consideration because the front and rear glass have to be removed to properly install new headliner material, so great if you can avoid this step! Not sure how this would work if the lateral stiffeners are being installed; might be able to drop the headliner sufficiently without taking the front and rear glass out.

I have had to remove the headliner completely, and note that the fuel vent lines and their body grommets were in terrible shape and need replacement. Maybe this is causing the fuel odor problem mentioned above?

The pre-sewn headliner might not be the best way to go; I had ordered prior to the sunroof idea. Stock headliner installs with side to side rods, sort of like an old covered wagon from cowboy movies. We think these rods will need to be cut and attached to the sunroof side rails, and finessed into place. This is how it is recommended in the instructions, but specific attachment method will have to be figured out when we do the job.

It might be easier to just get the loose headliner material, trim to fit, and figure out a different attachment method along the sides. I have plenty of loose Lodestar, so we are going to play this part by ear.

Was thinking that changing the inner sunroof liner to Lodestar would be a cool look, but as my roof kit is new I am not going to bother. This looks doable if your donor roof is stained or whatever, but some sewing by a trimmer would probably be required as it fits with rods in sewn pockets.

I had one of these roofs “back in the day” on an Alfa Berlina; large roof opening with essentially flat steel roof. I had no leakage problems in eight years of ownership, daily driver in all kinds of Canadian winter and summer weather. When I had it installed in the '70’s at a trained glass shop it was done easily in one afternoon, so not all that bad I guess if one knows the tricks. Long time ago, but ~$400 comes to mind. Allowing for inflation, etc., seems like current pricing is similar but still admittedly pretty spendy.

The gentleman I bought the Weathershield kit from used to be the Canadian distributor. Retired now, pieced the kit together with stuff he still had (assures me this is the last one he can put together). He trained all the installers across Canada. He says with the instructions it can be done by owner, but the first time takes a while and to be patient. Highly recommended finding someone who has done it before if you are getting installation done; this is not an option for me so I guess we will see how it goes.

Will post when we have done the job, hopefully early summer. Will try to take some progress photos as well.

HTH

Would it not be easier (and cheaper) to fix the petrol tank breather tubes than fit a sunroof?

Cheers
Jon

Hi

Yes it would but, the breathers on my car (early car) just poke through into the rear arches and dangle next to the road wheel, so the fuel vapour will find its way into the cabin through any little hole. I believe a lot of the vapour in the cabin also comes from the 40 year old felt between the fuel tank and tank straps. I will add new felt and fuel tank breathers to my ever growing list of ‘to do’ list.

I will put the rag roof in at some point in the future, thanks for the replies. If anyone has a complete +2 Webasto going cheap let me know? I would prefer one that is attached to a section of roof that has been cut out so I can leave it complete in the corner of my shed for a rainy day :slight_smile:

We had a dry mild day yesterday so I got one of the seatbelt mounts fittted and made up an alluminium closing plate.

Thanks

Jason