I have been trying to re-start the TC in my old Elan S2 that has stood still for 13 years. Its been thoroughly soaked in WD40 and and turns over nicely but I have had no joy firing her up. I did attain combustion a few times, but mostly a backfire through one of the inlets. Except when it seemed to run for about a second entirely on backfires through all 4 inlets! Probably a lot of petrol sitting there to be burned after so many attempts.
Anyway, here’s is what I have done:
Set static timing using 10degree mark on casing and checking the No1 cylinder was on combustion with my thumb over the plug hole (I am taking No1 as nearest the radiator).
Dropped in Lucas-based Aldon Ignitor 103TC dizzy and checked that rotor aligned with No1 lead afterwards - it did. Rotor arm turns anti-clockwise, so marked up dizzy cap with firing order 1342 and connected HT leads to plugs in that order.
Coil and dizzy connected like so: coil connected to +ve line from starter switch (through fuse box), Ignitor red and black wires to coil +ve and -ve sides respectively, HT lead from coil to centre hole on dizzy. I have a timing light to check that I am getting an HT circuit, so I think the electrics are fine.
I have checked the plugs, all of which are new but smell of petrol so the carbs are definately putting petrol into the cylinders.
On turnover, every now and then it will fire one cylinder, but no more.
I feel that I am quite close, but can’t think of anything more to check (everything above has been checked many times already!). Of-course, I realise that I am assuming the carbs work, but I am trying to ignore that as a variable at the moment just to make sure that I have the ignition stuff sorted!
Any tips of things to check, or any errors in my set up above would be gratefully received…
Matt,
Setting the static timing on the Ignitor is done differently from doing it with points. Put a spark plug into the #1 HT lead and lay it on the valve cover so you can see a spark jump the gap. Position the crankshaft at 10 degrees BTDC firing on #1. DISCONNECT all the other leads to the spark plugs. Turn on the ignition and rotate the the dizzy body in the OPPOSITE (clockwise) direction the rotor turns to phase the magnet to the hall effect switch from the correct side. Stop when the spark jumps the spark plug gap and tighten the clamp. It’s statically timed. Don’t forget and leave the ignition on because that can burn the coil up in few minutes. The next generation of hall effect switches coming out have a micro-processor which senses this and shuts off the power to the coil automatically.
You can squirt fuel into the carbs and keep it running so don’t worry about the carbs just yet. Make sure all is well with the ignition first. That’s the best practice way that a professional does the diagnostics.
Did you work on the cam timing at anytime since it’s last run? Are the electrics positive or negative earthed?
1-3-4-2 fire order ---- sounds like you have to re think the relation ship of the distributor timing to the firing order at the plugs ----- counterclockwise in the distributor ---- or you may have fouled the plugs— ed law
I just started up a TC that had been sitting for 5 years. As long as the petrol is fresh and the carbs are not gummed up with stale petrol varnish (I put a different set on rather than clean the old ones up) then a squirt of some stuff called “cold start” into the airbox will help. Do not squirt it directly down the chokes. Put the airbox on and squirt into the mouth of that (with the trunking disconnected and pushed to one side. I found that it is too easy to flood the engine otherwise.
I would use some extreme caution doing something like that. Seems like a good way to blow up the airbox if the entire mixture detonates in the box. Pretty good chance of that happening if the timing of some sort is wrong.
That is a good point. It does not surprise me that I did not think of it. If I had been watching someone else I would have said “I do not think that you want to do that”, but when I am at it I’m a bit gung ho.
On most cars I think that you would be OK. On a Lotus with bad timing you are quite literally playing with fire. Possibly a big one.
Type26, you’re the boy! I followed your instructions after realising that I had been following the standard instructions in the workshop manual. The reason I wasn’t following the instructions from Aldon was simply that they were aimed at the customer who had bought only the ignitor and was dropping them into a dizzy already installed. I now realise that there is a certain point were the instructions supplied started to make sense and should have been followed.
Anyway, got the static timing sorted and she started. She ran for about 10 seconds 3 times, but I couldn’t keep her going. This was probably due to the fact that as I don’t yet have a way of attaching the choke cable to the starting devices on the carbs, I was using both hands to hold open the starting devices, pull on the throttle and press the solenoid all at once. Probably either flooded her or starved her, or both.
I would have kept going with trying to get her running, but after a while I noticed that the left carb was pee-ing fuel everywhere, and the oil filter was leaking oil…problems for another day. But I think the timing is now sorted! Thanks again.
The carbs were leaking fuel from the top cover, and also through the hole into the air box above the left trumpet. I assume that both leaks would be solved with a new gasket? Is there ever an end to the amount of spares needed???
You probably do not want to hear from me after the cold start idea, but my money is on flooding. I have never used the choke on my TC even in deepest winter, and the one I started (after a 5 year lay up) recently on a cold day did not need it either. The other thing is that when I tried to start it with the old carbs on fuel came out of the hole on the left hand side of the carb in the same way that you describe. I guessed that my carbs were gummed up with old petrol and rubbish and that was causing the overflow. I put another set on and it all worked fine. I have not stripped the original set down yet. I think that yours are obstructed in some way.
Bernie, thanks for the tip about not using the choke, just what I need to know for next time.
A blockage in the carbs is certainly possible, even likely. I am trying to avoid doing overhauls that might not need doing as I want to postpone the full rebuild so I can enjoy actually driving her first! Although my S2 hadn’t moved for 13 years, she is actually is very good order, so I’m just fixing what needs it as I go along. That said, I did remove the carbs, clean them and soak them in cleaner - but I didn’t alter the set-up at all. However, it would be useful to know what that hole is for - is it an overflow that will be unaffected by a new gasket?
Hi All!
I too never use the choke,three pumps of the throttle normally works fine when cold.Most of the webers i’ve seen have the cold start device seized through lack of use or not even being connected! their function/benefit is dubious anyway.Fuel leaks from the top gasket are normally due to stuck float needle valve,fuel level is normally below gasket.take care,elan+fuel or wiring fault =heap big trouble. I had mine catch fire whilst driving at night,deep joy
Martin
Hey Matt,
If you do an archive search here on my postings on the Weber carbies you’ll find lots of info that is good to know which is not mentioned in any of the books. For instance, the cold-start chokes work just fine if they are tuned correctly which Lotus did not do.
Martin, you were right about the carby overflow. A quick squirt of WD40 on the inlet-float-valve-thingy and all my petrol now stays inside the carb. Thanks.
I can confirm what Martin was saying about the needle valve sticking and overflowing. The same happened with my dellortos. I had fuel coming out into the air intake box that ignited. Luckily I had a fire extinguisher close by and ended up with no damage worth talking about. But what I would say is that even though you’ve unstuck the needle valve, I’d still recommend that you either overhaul the carb’s yourself or have a professional do it for you. The last thing you want is a fire in the engine bay.
If you ever see your car changing colour from blue to flame red/charcoal brown you’ll wish you’d done it. I needed a new set of trousers after it happened to me.
Well, I think I was a little premature with my declaration of life a few days ago. Since bursting into life to 10 glorious seconds, she now won’t start at all. She does occasionally fire on one cylinder once, but hardly even that. Took a look at the plugs and found that those in 1 and 2 where still shiny silver but thoroughly wet with petrol, while those in 3 and 4 were dry sooty and black as a black thing (brand new plugs 3 days ago).
I’m thinking that the ignition is probably OK after going through the setup in detail again and following the advice Keith left on this thread. Begining to think that the carbys are not performing. Any suggestions on what to try and tweak first, before I take them off again for the full strip down? :huh:
Here’s an easy way to make sure there is spark going to each plug. Plug the HT leads into four spark plugs which are laying on the camcover and are therefore earthed. Crank it over with the starter motor with the ignition switch on. You should be able to see the spark jump across the four plugs and know for sure if all is okay or not. Not making any assumptions is the best course to take. Much easier and quicker to diagnose the ignition then the induction system. If there is good spark to all the plugs then the next step is to do a compression test. If those two items out of the three basic requirements needed for combustion are good then and only then do you tear into the carbies.
The polarity of the two of the magnets embedded in the reluctor could be reversed for instance.
Thanks for the tips Keith. I had already had the timing light connnected in series with each plug in turn which had convinced me I was getting a spark, but I have just done your check and confirmed that I do have sparks and they are even in the right order! A compression test requires a compression tester that screws in the spark plug hole, right? I don’t have such a device, but will have a look around for one. Supposing I get one, what pressure value would I be looking for?
PS: have now ordered a compression gauge for ?11.42 from an Internet tool shop.
Matt,
Don’t know the value off the top of my head but I’ll look for it later when I get home from work. Remember to open the throttles completely when doing the test. If you don’t the readings will all be alarmingly low. It’s a very common mistake.
Aahhh cancel that. Remembered on my way home I left my manual over at my parent’s house so you’ll have to get the info from someone else.
