I am struggling to get my +2 to start, i had this before and replace the battery +6 years and started straight away. Reading many posts there are lots of reasons, so i have checked the following
1 Battery test, shows it was just under amp load, however always wants a charge after attempting to start
2 Visual spark plug test, definitely glowing orange
3 Coil test .3 ohms across terminals / 8.0 Positive to HT lead output
4 Voltage to coil ( with ignition on) 10.48 volts
I have order a new set of spark plugs, as the cheapest bit.
Do the above readings suggest on starting im not getting enough amp load. I recall before i changed the battery last time around, with the addition of jumper pack it started straight away.
Ignition coil, is it on its way out, about 7 years old and has stood still for 5 years, not sure of make but i suspect relatively cheap ebay product.
I read that a coil pack that is on its way out, will make starting harder, run lumpy, misfire and stall, which is every symptom i have.
A new set of plugs is a good move. Mine simply refused to start having checked every thing a number of times. New plugs - fired on the button. Plugs ain’t what they used to be!
what age of +2 ? Think the later ones have a ballasted coil. if earlier, I agree it should be more than 12v static.
I am also struggling to start my +2 and suspect the coil, Thinking that cranking without the plugs in the engine may have led to coil failure?
I measured resistance of primary and secondary windings and get readings out of the suggested (google) range.
I looked to see if I could get a spark (main lead from coil with screw in, held close to an earth) by grounding the -ve side of the coil intermittently… is this a valid test? (I get no sign of spark).
Check the main ground in the boot. There’s a pair of bolts securing the body to the chassis through bobbins. On my car, the bolt heads, chassis and washers were rusty and it was like the battery was dying every time I tried to start. I pulled the bolts, ground the chassis rust off and put new bolts in. Fitted a cooper strap between the bolt ends in the boot (for extra connectivity to the chassis) an connected the ground. Now it turns over like a new car.
Regarding ballast resistors. My car doesn’t have one, but it’s fitted with what looks to be a Lucas Sport coil. I think these don’t need ballast, is that correct?
Check the HT leads with an ohm meter. I had a misfire caused by a failed lead. Had very high resistance.
[quote=“wotsisname”]
I am also struggling to start my +2 and suspect the coil, Thinking that cranking without the plugs in the engine may have led to coil failure?
Highly unlikely Adrian. Remove the spark plugs, fit one HT lead to a single spark plud laid across the cam cover and spin the engine over. It should spark intermittently if all items in the chain are working correctly.
Jon, the Lucas Sport coil DLB105 does NOT need an external ballast. The DLB110 requires an external
ballast. The coil i.d. might be stamped on the bottom, if there is no decal.
I think it’s a 105. Anyway, the car goes like all hell.
The coil is gold coloured (looks like an anodised aluminum can) and the strap securing it is not the matching one. The pictures I’ve seen of it have a Lucas sticker on the strap, not the coil. So I think some lazy OP swapped the Lucas coil into the original holder (it’s actually a bit loose but I’ve lined it with foam). There’s no markings on the coil itself that I could see.
Generally:
Due to the long route from the battery going through its travels around these cars, it is possible to see voltages less than 12. If you think about the route through the ignition
switch etc and the wire size. Plus some less than clean conections, it does not take much to get below 11 volts. Ignition switches can have some intermittent resistance.
I have worked on a few were the meter danced everywhere.
As the engine starts and the charging system kicks in it will obvoiusly increase.
The load taken by the starter pulls the voltage down quite dramatically under cranking.
Those things mentioned like the boot earth. I have always done two bolts and a busbar on all cars in that position. I have even added a large negative lead to the front. Plus two front engine flexible straps. You can’t get too much copper in circuit when it comes to getting a good voltage and fast starter spin.
As I recall torque is proportiional to voltage squared, so you loose a lot of turning force with depressed voltage, which leads to even more current trying to be drawn.
I favour a ballast coil system for better starting as you are letting a lower voltage rated coil have whatever is available while cranking.
For argument sake. A 12 volt rated coil under cranking maybe struggling to see 8 volts.
Then, for say, a ballast coil which could be rated at 6 to maybe 9 volts getting the maybe 8. I know which one I would pick.
I cured my starting problem on the last Plus 2 I owned like this.
My advice is not specific but as stated above general guide from what i have done when chasing my tail. Some will say it is overkill.
My recent posting for the Zetec with a Nodiz on an Elan showed up problems. The Nodiz would only spark with the plugs out on a freshly charged battery. With them in, the loading supressed the voltage. I banged in a second positive and negatvive plus I fed the module with 4mm from the battety direct with an ignition supplied relay. No more low volts for me.
A favourite of mine is to give it a squirt of EasiStart. No response on that you definitely have an ignition problem. In fact if the car has been left over a week I always use EasiStart so as to give the starter / ring gear and easy time!
Thanks for your replies (Street - I hope you don’t mind that I jumped in with a similar tale of woe).
I had already looked for a spark, leaving all four plugs on the camcover, without joy… I have an aldon electronic ignition inside the distributor so am hoping it is still working…
I checked the coil had 12v+ at the + terminal (meter connected to earth and +), which was ok.
following advice from here…
I measured the resistance of the leads (4.3 to 5kohm for the 4 plug leads). The coil to cap lead is ca. 8k ohm… seems a different type ( marked 15kohm, hotwires, silicone high performance 0879D). I am assuming these to be ok.
Coil removed to bench. I get 5.7kohm from +to the output and same reading from -ve to output. + to - gives a reading of 3.7ohm… multimeter leads contribute 1.0 ohm.
firstly… am I doing the right measurements? my assumption here is that the coil is duff… its barely used, but quite old… car was last started about 12 months ago … have been trying to get it all finished ready for a drive this year (fingers crossed).
Adrian
It might be in the Aldon… There is a minimum voltage needed for to them to work, i’d guess somewhere around 10v.
I have similar problems with my car after being parked for a while, even on trickle charger. Turns over ok on starter but won’t fire, if i hook my jump pack up at the solenoid it fires straight a way. Then will then restart fine unless it’s parked up for an extended period.
I suspect a combination of factory meaning the ignition module isn’t getting quite enough voltage to work, hence no spark. I’ve been going through my car trying to improve grounds and connections but still hitting this issue.
If you have a spare battery you could try powering the module from that rather than the car and see if that address it or not …
This morning you had 10.48V at the coil and tonight you have 12V. mmm.
Again I assume a non-ballast (ie a 12V coil) and your readings are static and not cranking. In which case your battery was poor this morning and better - but not perfect - tonight. I would want to see a 12.6V reading. So before anything, I’d get a new battery ( you did say that when you had this before, a new battery solved it)
You have no spark and assume the coil, why? Tonight you tantalise us with new info that you have an Aldon ignitor! I suggest you search some of the MG and TR sites where the phrase of ‘fit an Aldon or Pertronix and carry a condenser and points in the glove box’ abounds!
You say you have voltage at coil so I assume all connections are good.
Check the HT lead is clean and perfectly seated in the coil.
Take the HT lead off the distributer and hold it close to the engine whilst cranking. Still no spark? Then check/ replace the Ignitor.
HCA, thanks for replying, you are however mixing in response from wotitsname
I have 10.48v static on key position 1, yes this was the same issue all those years ago, new battery and issue went away. the issue with living in NZ is the cost of things, batteries are $300+ here for the same one that is 50-100 pounds in uk.
I have an orange spark, even with plugs wet with fast start wont ignite.
I did change the old Petronix system (1990) version over 6 years ago, i will look and see what make mine is.
Huge apology! I read the ‘thanks for replies’ and just made the assumption! My bad!
Co-incidentally, i was searching for the Ignitor test procedure and was about to post this: aldonauto.co.uk/news/aldon- … --testing-
I think the same applies for Pertronix as I understand they are the same.
Back to yours. You have an orange spark. OK good, a spark is a spark at this stage and should do its job if the timing and mixture is good. If though it does not work with your ‘fast start’, them something else not right. Timing springs to mind as a possibility.
Are you running a ballast coil? I still assume not and could be why the spark is weak.
Do you have access to a proper spark tester?
These are better than a plug.
Your battery - how good is it in turning the engine?
no worries, timing is good the car has been running, admit-ably rough, i got the battery checked at local store and said it was low, fully charged it spins the engine over faster but still wont fire, i have had it going, but starting has been very hard. Timing has not been touched for a very long time, so nothing should of changed.
I dont know if i have a ballast coli, i will get to this later and take it off for proper examination,
I can order a spark plug tester, what will this show, colour change?
I was thinking of upgrading to Lucas gold coil anyway to improve starting, far cheaper than a new battery.
General question, what battery specification would you put on, 600+CCA AMPS?
I don’t think it is enough to accept the timing is good but it is running rough.
I would buy a new set of plugs before a coil, and then start all over from the beginning, get it running then adjust mixture.
Coils are not matched to the battery. Determine the make of your ignitor and ask them. Bear in mind they will probably suggest a ballast type. This may require another wire from your starter solenoid over to the coil.
Can you jump start from another vehicle and measure the voltages during this process ? This might help to determine if there are other “wiring” related issues - meaning you will suffer the same issues even if the battery is replaced.
To further isolate the problem you could bypass the ignition switch circuit by temporarily connecting the coil directly to the battery +ve supply and seeing if the car starts normally. If it does you know you’ve found the problem area.
Orange spark doesn’t sound good by the way. Should be blue.