Elan S3 S/E.

Elan S3 S/E. 1966. Recent complete rebuild following flood damage.
Body off, Chassis repainted, Wheel and diff bearings replaced. Complete re trim, Loom refurb. Refinished in original Cirrus White.Gearbox and diff rebuilt with 3.54. Rebuilt Sprint engine with alternator and electronic ignition. Spyder drive shafts. Mohair hood.
New brake pipes aeroquip hoses. Offers on £30k. Somerset. 07562 604536.

Is this David’s old car? Seems very close to the fait that his car suffered, and you are in Somerset, where he lived.

Leslie

Is that the one that was blackwater contaminated. Not permited to rebuild.
Alan

That is the car I am referencing Alain, and trying to acertain if this is the same car.

Leslie

Hi Leslie
Yes, David’s car and it was a bit of a mess! Although not totally immersed, all the oils had been floated off from the engine, gearbox and diff!
The body was taken off, stripped, power washed and disinfected. The doors had the same treatment. The chassis was similarly stripped, washed and repainted.
Underside of the body was then under sealed. Reassembly then started.
All the porous stuff, carpets, seats, sound deadening, door cards etc - even the glove box (cardboard) was binned and replaced.
Having been David’s almost daily driver for a number of years, the body work was not without its flaws anyway, so after rectification it was resprayed. Engine, gearbox and diff all replaced - some of the electrics were rebuildable, some were replaced.
Obviously well behind economic repair, but then most Elan rebuilds are! However, that’s not why we do these things, is it?
Best. Simon.

Thanks for coming back and clarifying Simon. A few other things spring to mind, if you don’t mind.

What do you mean by ‘Engine, gearbox and diff all replaced’ ?

I cannot remember all the details of the incident, but wasn’t the car a total write off and categorised as not to be put back on the road? Was it recorded as such on the MID database and what does the V5 say in respect of that? And lastly, how were you able to buy it? Are you an authorised company that can buy salvage cars?

Many thanks,

Leslie

Hi Leslie,
Good questions and a few points to clear up. Seems a bit vague to say the least.
A bit like “Trotter’s Trading Co”. Would be nice if Dellboy filled us in on the details.
Alan

If it was written off by the insurance assessor, it will have a marker against it if anyone does a Hpi. Depends what that marker is, as to whether it can go back on the road…
I believe anyone can buy a “salvage” car, if it’s category S or N.
If it’s Cat B, then it can’t go back on the road, but parts can be removed.
If it’s Cat A, then it has to be scrapped, no removal of parts allowed.
Would be nice to know which Category the car was put into.

Hi Leslie

Starting at the front, I built and fitted David’s engine about four years ago. Possibly considered by some to be a bit extreme for a road car it was a 1700 with QED cams.
I sourced, rebuilt and fitted a standard Sprint engine.
The gearbox had obviously been flooded and would always have a question mark over it until being dismantled and checked. I had an Elan gearbox that I knew was 100%,so fitted that.
To reduce engine speed at motorway cruise, David had a 3.0:1 diff ( see thread on this site) It did exactly that but also had a whine on overrun which would be considered unacceptable to many. I had a good 3.54:1 so that was the ideal choice. ( Along with new output shaft bearings). Hence, engine, gearbox and diff all replaced.
I have worked on this car for David for probably more than 25 years, if I didn’t already have an ex IWR S2, I would be keeping this S3,
I bought the car from the insurance company. The V5 is not marked.
I hope that clarifies.
Best. Simon.

Does it have any salvage marker on it at all Simon ?

Hi
No.
S.

You all seem to be disparaging of what Simon has done in rebuilding this car.
The car has been rebuilt…So what? Assuming it has been to a good standard and it seems like from the description it has then the car will be fine. Most of these car now have been rebuilt a few times over anyway over the years and an awful lot of them have been badly bodged.

A car is marked on an HPI check as ‘S’, that means that it is classed as ‘structural damage’ even though in this case it is flood water.
Marked as ‘N’ is non-structural damage.
The V5 is not usually marked at all, the above only shows on a registration HPI check.
On a modern car this all matters a lot but on a 50+year old classic car that was originally made up of parts sourced from all over the place anyway I can’t see how it affects anything.

Alan

Yes it was mine and if anyone knows how to rebuild an Elan it is Simon. He looked after it for over 35 years for me and we did over 200k touring around Europe in it. A really lovely driving car, it always seemed so much smoother and more comfortable than the other Elans around here, and I do hope it finds a good owner. If you do buy it I have a huge amount of photographs of her life with us. Simon has all the paperwork history, all receipts and so on. D

I have no doubt that Simon’s restoration will be first class,
I was only asking the question, as it’s vital that a prospective buyer knows whether a salvage marker is against the rebuilt car. Regardless of what anyone else might think, and whatever the cause of that marker, it does give any car in question, a stigma.
Not so long ago, any “write off” category, attached to a vehicle, meant a fair asking price for a car with such a flag, would generally be reasonably priced at 2/3rds of a similar car in a similar condition.

If this car has no such category against it, and nothing shows up on a HPI report, then it’s a fair price, but the question must be asked, knowing how it came to be damaged.

“knowing how it came to be damaged.”

Well I was there when it happened!! We have a river at the bottom of the garden and it overflowed. The water that flooded dear Spot did not come from the roads where the drains are, just pure river water. Incidentally I had to anchor her to my work bench to stop her floating to the sea!! My sack truck in the same garage was found over 500 yards away such was the power of the water. D

Yes David, a very sad day for you.
Did you find another Elan ?

‘You all seem to be disparaging of what Simon has done in rebuilding this car’

I beg your pardon. I have not been disparaging at all. I have asked perfectly reasonable questions against a car that is being offered for sale, and remember the previous owner saying that the car had been written off.

Further, I seem to remember that David, the previous owner, said that he wanted, and tried to buy the car from the insurers, but was not able to, but I do not remember why not. So the question remains, how was the current owner, the seller of the vehicle, able to buy the car, yet David was not?

Why is this important? Because if the car is somewhere, on someones database, forget HPI, I am more concerned with MID., the Motor Insurers Database, noted as previously written off, then it can affect so many things, eg. being able to insure it etc.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, if it is not recorded ANYWHERE, that the car has previously been written off, then some sort of fraud has taken place by the insurers, as the insurance history of the car has been completely wiped clean.

Leslie

The way so called insurance 'Write off ’ cars are handled in the UK is often completely misunderstood by most people.
What is usually meant and called a ‘write off’ by a insurance company or broker is just a term meaning the car is beyond economical repair by normal means. This with the high labour rates in the UK Motor trade means it doesn’t take very much damage to have any car declared a ‘write off’ following an accident of some sort.
99% of these so called ‘write off’ cars find there way back on to the roads in the UK and unless a HPI check is done a driver will never know. That is why you should always, always do an HPI check on any car no matter what the age before you buy!
Re-insurance of a Cat ‘S’ or Cat ‘N’ car is never a problem.

This car was clearly not a total ‘write off’ otherwise it would have been classed by HPI as a Category ‘A’ car or Cat ‘B’ car which cannot be returned to the road in the UK. Cat A’ or’ B’ cars are either crushed or are sold abroad usually to third world countries.

Copart UK Ltd are a world wide company,dealing with insurance companies, who hold auctions weekly of so called 'write’offs ’ or Salvage cars as they are termed and if you register with them you are free to go and buy an ex-write off and rebuild it yourself if you wish. There are other smaller companies who deal in car salvage but they are the main one in the Uk who deal with repairable vehicle salvage.
copart.co.uk

Simon has said this car is a Cat ‘S’ and there is no problem with a Cat ‘S’ car being insured and returned to normal road use. Usually the DVLA will say either a DOT testing station must examine the car before it can obtain it’s RFL or sometimes not even that and MOT will be acceptable before the car goes back on the road.

No records are destroyed or wiped clean! No fraud is ever done!

This car will be forever a Cat ‘S’ car as declared by HPI who hold the database of all cars in the UK. Re-Insuring a Cat ‘S’ car following a rebuild is never a problem…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPI_Ltd

I am sure following the extensive re-build that has been done this is a perfectly nice car. If I was in the market for an Elan I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it!

Alan.

“Simon has said this car is a Cat ‘S’ and there is no problem with a Cat ‘S’ car being insured and returned to normal road use”

I don’t think you interpreted Simon’s answer to my question correctly, regarding whether there was any salvage “flag” or marker against the car.
He said “No”, and I took the “S” underneath that answer to be his initial.

I understood that there is NO category attached to the Elan in question, unless you are referring to some other comment of his, which I’ve missed.

elans3,
Do you think so…?
Well perhaps you are correct about what I understood to be saying it was Cat ‘S’ in which case if you are correct and it has not been declared by the industry in any Category at all, which I very much doubt, then even better, all is well and good and the car is categorised as clean going forward.

It was Leslies’ inference that fraud had been comiitted which shows a lack of understanding of how the so called ‘write off’ and ‘uneconomical repair’ market works that I was at pains to clarify.

Alan.