Alloy bell housing question

I have question. I have the chance of an alloy bell housing but it might be wrong. I would like to use it on the S4 FHC track day car project. :smiley: It has two starter entry points and I believe it fits lots of other fords as well as the twin cam. Do we fit these and if we do what happens with the clutch. I was told that they use cables on a lot of other applications. Is there some sort of arrangement to make our hydraulic slave cylinder fit.

Or am I on the wrong horse here and need an alloy one that is indentical to the heavy normal one.

Advise appreciated. :confused:

Mike

sounds like you’ve got the bellhousing the rally boys use in RS2000s, it will fit the type 9 5speed or type E heavy duty 4speed gearbox. If you have a chat with Worzel on here, he’s got a new type 9 modified to fit the elan for sale. to make the clutch actuation work, you just make a plate to close off the spare starter hole, with a boss to take the slave cylinder. You should be able to use the original arm.You could convert to a cable operated clutch quite easily also (no cooked slave cylinders and hydraulic fluid probs)

I dont think it will fit the Elan type box.
Out of interest, what did you pay for the alloy bellhousing?

regards

Mark

Mike, The bellhousing you are talking about will only save you 3.5kg over the original. The correct ali one will save around 4.5 kg and cost around ?350. Don’t you think you could spend ?350 in a better way to up the power and diet off the 4.5kg for free (just joking)
Regards
Dave

Hi Mike,
sounds like you’ve got a few things to check out. I suggest you also check the length of the bell housing if you’re going to try to use the original clutch release mechanism, just to see where the release bearing will end up relative to the clutch itself.
Easiest way is to fit a hydraulic concentric clutch release system, you will then have lots of room where the old slave cylinder was for a fat juicy exhaust manifold :smiley:
John

Mark,

Yes i am told it is RS 2000 type, but I have not bought it yet or parted with any cash. I would be intrested in the one Worzel has if he reads this.
Will PM him!

Quite happy to do some mods for the clutch if I have the right bit to start with.

thanks Mike

Hi John & Dave,

looks like we hit the button at the same time. I am moving the power up and I am concerned I dont bawk the manifold area.

Re body weight:

Me, just a slip of a lad! :laughing:
Car, all non essentials will not exist. Even go kart seat! I am being a bit gready thinking I could shed some more weight for a relativley low cost with the bell housing.

John, I will check the length. Re: the clucth mechanism you mention, could you please elaborate a tad.

thanks Mike

The RS 2000 bellhousing will not go onto your original gearbox, you would need a type 9 and if you wanted to use the slave cly set up you would need a BDA to Rocket bellhousing. See pics


Mike,
it’s a bit more complicated if the length of the bellhousing doesn’t match your original.
Assuming it to be longer: this will pull the g/box input shaft away from the spigot bearing in the crankshaft.
If you have to fabricate a new pivot point for the clutch lever arm then forget what I said because you will attempt to achieve the same axial position of the original.
Sorry it’s been a bad week TGIF :laughing:

Mike, Regarding manifold space round the slave cyl area, Have a look at the post below this one regarding concentric slave cylinders
Regards
Dave

Yep, had a read about the cylinder and will look in the Burton book tonight.

Thanks for the pic’s of the right one Brian.
and advice John & Dave.

Mike

Brian, That alloy bellhousing you have posted the pic of is for a type 9 type box, hence the extra “bolt hole” for the selector rod at the top of the bellhousing/gearbox face. Does this also fit the elan four speed?

regards

Mark

Mark,
It is a BDA to Rocket bellhousing (BDA is based on the 711 ) and the rocket being a stronger version of the type 9 hence it will fit a T9 but would not fit the standard 4 speed 2000E etc. I posted it to show what coud be used if a type 9 was used and the standard slave cylinder set up retained.
There is an alloy bellhousing available to fit the 4 speed box and take the slave cylinder set up.

I thought as much Brian! I was going to try and locate an “ambidextrous” alloy bellhousing for the type 9, but the mods to the gearbox made the MT75 make more sense. Still working at it though!!

regards

Mark

Mark, May be its been posted and I missed it but what are the gear ratio’s in the MT75 ? I also dont remember Spyder quoting any ratio’s but from what recall when I checked a couple of years ago they didn’t seem ideal.

As I remember, the MT75 ratios are the same as the standard T9 box. From all the previous posts I have been studying over the past few months - it appears to be generally considered a pretty lousy first gear.

Brian Clarke

ratios in the MT75 are as follows:

       ; 1st   2nd   3rd   4th  5th

2.0 16v;3.89, 2.08 ,1.34, 1.0, 0.82
2.3 16v;3.61, 2.08 ,1.44, 1.0, 0.82

there are some other ratios for the diesel and the later 2.3 16v. The gearbox concerned is from the 1995 onwards Scorpio, this has the starter on the drivers side and concentric,hydraulic clutch actuator.

I take it you chaps think I’ll end up with bit of a pup, or are these ratios ok?

I need a fifth gear for the intended use (for economy and ear drum protection!!) on motorways. My sister lives oop north and my brother lives in Holland, I intend frequent trips to both in the car.

Mark

Mark,

Here is a technical evaluation of the two gearbox ratios you referenced.

Assume an Elan with 155-13 tires, 3.77 differential, and 7000RPM.

The first MT75 ratios produce
Ratio…%diff Speed Diff
3.890…31.4
…87.0%…27.3
2.080…58.7
…55.2%… 32.4
1.340…91.2
…34.0%…31.0
1.000…122.2
…22.0%…26.8
0.820…149.0
Figure of Merit -33.9
Speed difference increment -0.3

The Figure of Merit is a mathematical calculation as to how well the gear ratios are staged. It has a maximum value of 100. Well, what can we say, this is a sedan gearbox. First gear is virtually unusable in an Elan it is so low, the engine bogs when upshifting and overrevs when downshifting.

The second MT75 ratios produce
Ratio…%diff Speed Diff
3.610…33.8
…73.6%…24.9
2.080…58.7
…44.4%… 26.1
1.440…84.8
…44.0%…37.3
1.000…122.2
…22.0%…26.8
0.820…149.0
Figure of Merit -409.2
Speed difference increment 1.7

First gear is marginally better, but the lower third gear really upsets the ratio progression…

Request a copy of the spreadsheet that generated these figures. It allows you to easily model any set of ratios, generates much more data than can be included here, and, in general, gives you more data than you ever thought you needed.

David
1968 36/7988
[email protected]

Hi David ,

thats very interesting, I’m not sure I can even start to understand the information though!!
I worked on 6500 rpm upshift, 165/80x13 tyres and a 3.77 diff, i had 1st pegged at 33mph(7 down on std), 2nd at 58mph (2 down on std),3rd at 83mph, (3down on std), 4th is the same and fifth will drop the rpm by 7-800 rpm. As a road car and based on my use of a 130/5 over 3 years, once moving, 1st isn’t used, so realistically a standard Elan has a 3 speed box, mine’ll have a 4speed!! I’ll get better mpg, a wicked gear shift (its like a switch!!) and I’ll hear my stereo on long runs whilst saving my engine and money!.
I realise the tall first in the Elan helps to give it some of its Zest, but in the real world (The “open Prison” built near Luton that is where I live) I dont think it will affect the overall experience.

I’m keeping the original set up, so If needed I’ll be able to swap back!!

Can you explain the numbers and percentages and how they are worked out/what they actually mean?

regards

Mark